cleaning machine

SDstriper, I did some checking during one of my stops today regarding ball size. But before I start let me say to Ken, I apoligize for "jumping your bones" a little bit on this one. I still absolutely disagree with the logic and info given and definitely do not like to hear what I feel are unfair comparisons. Perhaps you can equate it to Joe P. and the Chick Fast food BS. You know it is not true yet it is broadcast to the world as if it is entirely factual. With that being said, Ken, it is silly to compare a .75 GPM pump and a 1.25 GPM pump, meaning your old Linelazer 3000 and your current 4900. Ones output is 60% greater. That is like taking a 400 HP Corvette and wondering why it does not compete with a 640 HP version. The point is that the HP figures stated are 60% greater, a huge difference. Naturally a 3000 with a max flow rate of .75 will have smaller internal parts, namely balls, and they will be more susceptable to "issues" than those of higher output pumps. You have many times stated that the 3000 gave you piming problems. You recently said yoiu were experiencing very positive results out of the 3400 to the point that you asked if I knew any available at a good price. So you cannot use one pumps history to judge an entire lline of equipment. From a flow rate standpoint the balls in a Linelazer 3900 and just slightly smaller than the 4900 so issues should be similar with both. The 5900 balls are noticeably larger. To take it one step further the tolerances in the ball cage to ball OD area are more precise with the Linelazer 3900/5900. The 4900 tolerances are less precise. In some ways, by leaving your pump "wet" you are sidestepping (a good thing) an issue related to your pumps that they prime better when wet. The looser tolerances in the 4900 ball, seat, cage adds a little sloppiness or innefficiency to dry priming that pump. By deciding to keep yours wet, this downside becomes a non factor. Something to consider when making recomendations is that,"we all do things differently, use different paints, machines, day/night, hot/cold, etc." This fellow asked about leaving waterborne in machines for extended periods, which is something, (I am guessing) you have very little recent or widespread experience with. Now if we were discussing solvent based you have as much or more experience than anyone here. But, we are not. To me fast dry waterbornes and solvent based paints have next to nothing in common. And waterbornes have norma and typical side issues. Ask Jpanz, he has been spraying them exclusively for years. Now that he has a solvent based alternative in the acetone paints, he avoids waterbornes like a plague. With waterbornes most do not simply "arrive at job, back machines out, paint". Most also do not go years without repacking when exposed to waterbornes. Entirely different paints. If you had any extensive experience operating a 5900 or 200HS chances are you would not say things like "bla bla bla is more forgiving... clog this clog that. With waterborne only usage, you might not be such a happy camper. To answer other questions from this thread: Do not leave equipment under pressure in storage, there is NO benefit! Period! Use valves as priming devises and secondarily as an emergency relief devise. If needed, use the gun to relieve pressure. If you use the valve to routinely relieve pressure, expect to replace it often, especially if it is a ball valve. Yes Randy, the Graco valve serves a three functions, prime, manual emergency relief, and automatic pressure relief if pressure reaches some pre-set overpressure. Yes there are components in airless pumps that rust. There are also some pumps that are not chemically compatible which may not rust but have even more detrimental or even dangerous side effects. Some pumps have more "not so good" stuff than others. One thing that rusts on all pumps is the tungsten carbide ball seats, which is used in most name brands. This can, over time, cause a ball to stick. Graco piston rods have a base metal of stainless and then chrome plated. Others use a base metal of plain old steel and then chrome plate. The base metal IS exposed to waterborne paints. Which piston rod would you think would tolerate water or waterbornes for extended periods? In this same vain, not all equipment manufacturers make metallurgic choices based on the intended or ALL the potential paint type choices available. One does! Some companies choose based on cost savings in manufacturing and ease in machining. SDStriper, I think I addressed the ball issue.

Speaking of balls! There's a pair of screw balls here in cyberspace that could use a good rap, if you know what I mean. And not the spoken word rap that Ken is so fond of.

I really think we should buy the cheapest machine that airlessco makes and go from there... I called there tech support the other day and was told they only had two people in the tech dept and one was out to lunch... Wouldn't it bet great to have a disposable paint machine???

Cormac, No prob! I perhaps was not sounding as "objective". In fairness, I should have not mentioned the brand name. As you know, my problems experienced are with short throw pumps regardless of the manufacturer. Speeflo makes them too. Likewise, my fuse is very short when any machine doesn't work. Sorry for not updating you. We have 3-3900's in addition to the 2-3000's (just sold one, though). The 3900 should be same playing field as the 4000's. True, usually all I have to do is tap on the lower pump housings to get them to pump. The short throw pumps don't like unstrained paint. I'm certain a 200HS wouldn't have a problem same as the Speeflo hydraulics. Cormac....somehwere in the recent posts SDtriper and I were fantasizing about "the ideal striper". It involved the 3400 frame.

Clarification: Randy, the only machines I used the "wet tip cup" on was my old air machines. With the Grackles, I park them, come back some time later, start, stir, spray and go. You know the drill. ...somehow I have missed the joy of whacking my pump all these years. Somehow mine run. Even one I bought from a failed striper (I know, I'm a vulture) that was all dried up pumped three days after I force fed it a diet of toluene. But then I don't like my paint or liquor with water in them.... ....oh BTW Ken, you might do some inquiring about the safety of using MEK vs. Toluene. You might thank yourself in 10 years... ...and I think the reason that Ken hates "short throw" pumps so much, is that one stole a girlfriend from him and he has never forgiven them. I have striped with Titans and they are good machines, but since they have made no attempt to make themselves more ergonomically attuned to use with a pusher, I have to mark them right off the list. Graco has made a definite commitment to make life as a striper easier and it shows. I do think they should offer the 3900 electronics as an option, but the computer is a handy tool once you learn to use it. Sorta like the Lazy Liner was ten years ago.

Ken and I had this very conversation last week on the phone. NOT ONCE (in 8 years) have I ever had to tap on my machines(Graco-3000/3900/5900) with a hammer to get them to pump. Although I have used a hammer to knock dried-up paint off the frame. Of course, I stick to one brand(Aexcel) of paint and avoid water-based paint like the plague(that it is). My guess is that Ken's buying used machines, that haven't been properly cared for and he's paying the price. As far as pressure relief valves go, That's what I use them for....pressure relief. I've only replaced two in that same time frame. Both on the same machine. My logic on machine storage is, as long as your suction/return tubes are submerged, very little, if any air will get into your system. We very rarely take off for more than a couple days, but I've left a spare machine sitting for 3-4 weeks and fired it up, circulated the paint, and started striping with no problems.

Here's the difference in our standard operating conditions as I indicated above... "The short throw pumps don't like unstrained paint."

You must buy some pretty nasty paint. Other than the aforementioned "broken filter" paint, the only paint I EVER strain is "leftovers", when I consolidate short pails, add some naptha and remix. Then I strain, as there are likely to be chunks. The inlet filter and manifold filter take care of any other problems. I don't use gun filters, except when I am spraying wood work or walls at my house. (My carpenter is coming tomorrow to install built in bookcases, so I am going to prime and paint the wood today using SW ProClassic sprayed with a 211 tip with a gun filter). I have a machine with red in it (we have a management company based in Texas that wants its fire lanes in red) and I haven't cranked it in 4 months. I stored the machine with a shot of mineral spirits in the pail and a tight fitting plastic lid, and I will just have to add a cup of naptha, stir with a drill mixer, recirculate and it will be ready to spray. I guess I'm just lucky that way...

I pour the leftovers together and pump it. The old worn-out abused hydraulics don't even hiccup until the rock catcher gets completely blocked. I never drill or stir.... just put the return tube at the top of the pail and let the machine do the mixing.

\\\STRIPES/// wrote on Apr 8, 2006:Go to #29

until the rock catcher gets completely blocked. I

don't want to have to field clean a rock catcher, so I have the employees do the paint reconditioning at the shop during NPT (non-productive time aka the boss is on the phone or can). Since the pails being reconstituted range from barely liquid to factory fresh, I feel like the paint needs to be mixed and thinned to smooth out any inconsistencies between the pails.

I grew up using house screen, still do. About once a season I either grab the garbage can of house screen at the local hardware store or I buy a brand new roll on sale and cut it in half with a circular saw. I used to screen 100% when I ran air machines only, cheap insurance. Now I only screen if it is known bad (expletive). Usually several combined pails or the twice a year blue pail that has been lurking around here now for three years...

BTS You may want to change paint mfgrs. Been a while, but the last time I checked, MEK was one of the solvents in SW alkyd and CR!

In my opinion machines should be cleaned regardless of the make, or type, and I have both 6900/8900 titans and hs200 graco which are very forgiving, but I still insist they be clean regularly.My staff will come into work one hour early before their shift starts once a week to do maintenance on their units. That's clean the machine, trucks trailers, stencils etc Do a stock take on paint, and equipment and fill out their hazz sheets. We only use Chloro. Doing this ensures of clean run through the job sheets. The filter should be cleaned regularly so the paint flow is consistant and optimised, this puts down a nice clean crisp even line. The hoses should be cleaned through, filter cleaned, the oils checked, the piston cup with fresh oil and dirt free and pick up pipes scraped down and free of dry paint. I used to have them do this twice a week but I think that these bigger pumps can handle being cleaned after 40hrs of use. Cormac if your reading this, is this a wise move or should we go back to 2 x a week? We are having no issues with down time on jobs and the filters look pretty good.

Wendy, you are on the right track, let the machines tell you what they want. I think weekly should not hurt especially using chlorinated. Obviously filters will require attention more frequently as might the wet cup. Wiping down the exterior of the machine periodically is a good thing rather than let it build up over a lifetime.