Competition's Price?

When it happened to us, they asked how much we charged per line and handi-cap, i just told the person i would have to look at the job it depended on a lot of factors. when they pressed i told them we would love to come out and give them a price, that got them off the phone. IT DIDN'T Show up on caller ID, but the questions they asked and the tone told me it was someone trying to find out what the comp. is getting or more probably some one looking to start up, needing to know what to charge. Next time i'll do what Dean Did. LOL.

I will add, NEVER give phone quotes. We get people all the time that will press us very hard for a phone quote, they could or could not be competitors. We learned our lesson the hard way, property managers and owners have a hard time with math, all too often what they say is a 1x1 pothole, is a 5x5 crater, or what is a few lines and a handi, turns out to be 45 lines, a handi, and 10 NO PARKING's...

right on asphaltman. insist on looking at the job before giving any pricing

I seldom look at jobs. Here in the metro-mess it can take a good three hours. Thats $600 nonproductive. That means I've LOST $600 because I would have been putting paint down in that same amount of time somewhere. After a few qulaifying questions I usually can get real close. I come out short only infrequently using our estimating formula.

I seldom look at jobs. Here in the metro-mess it can take a good three hours. Thats $600 nonproductive. After a few qulaifying questions I usually can get real close. I come out short only infrequently using our estimating formula.

I'd have to disagree. It's only nonproductive if you DON'T get the job. I think if you take the time to show up and actually measure the job, it shows a certain level of dedication. Plus the client can "put a face" on your business. We have so many jobs going on, I usually say "I'll be in your area on Wednesday. Would you like to schedule a meeting or do you need the estimate sooner?" This way, I'm not having to run around just to bid work. It's kinda like routing your jobs. You're justing adding an extra stop to your day. I've picked up several jobs in the past couple weeks, because other guys have no-showed or tried to bid work using satellite imagery and so-on. You are right with the term "qualify". But, I'd apply it to the customer not the job specs.

We are never caught up. If we don't get the remaining 10 percent, no big deal. We are usually 10 days to two weeks out. I start getting nervous only if the jobs in the "to-do" column fall under 15K. There are always jobs that are ready to go. If I took time off to go look at something, it would reflect directly in severe loss of income or create more difficulty in meeting deadlines. "I come out short only infrequently using our estimating formula." We are NEVER a no-show. All operations are not the same. What works best for you is the right way.

We are never caught up. If we don't get the remaining 10 percent, no big deal. We are usually 10 days to two weeks out. I start getting nervous only if the jobs in the "to-do" column fall under 15K. There are always jobs that are ready to go. If I took time off to go look at something, it would reflect directly in severe loss of income or create more difficulty in meeting deadlines. "I come out short only infrequently using our estimating formula." All operations are not the same. What works best for you is the right way.

If the job warrents going out then we will go out there, there are the smaller jobs that you can quote over the phone and close the deal there and then like 30 spaces with 5 arrows no need to go there for that, on the larger projects like this one that we have just finished on Thursday http://www.nbr.co.nz/video/sp_2.wmv there is no way we could price that with out going on site and liaising with the engineers. By the time the engineers had finished with the parking and road markings we they were on revision O. It just reconfirmed my belief there is more money in remark. your in out and the bills sent no mucking about. I have to got to remark 3 large malls all having an humongous amount of directional roadmarkings and double lines with hoops pedestrian crossings and crosshatching on each mall, my night shift will arrive @ 9 p.m finish at 6a.m. no mucking about.

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I wish my area was as "quality driven " as y'alls territory. I have been in business for about 10 years now and I am constantly having to rethink my figures when estimating. I mean everytime I go out to estimate a job there is always some Owner that tells me how low the prices are from my so-called competitors. which is usually a border crosser painting upwards of 3500 linear foot of striping with a roll. I can send you a video of this just send me your email. Robert can testify I sent him a video on this guy doing exactly what I'm talking about. Back to the Point, the guy charged like around .04 cents. WTF! What this does is make owners and contractors want everyone in the profession to go that cheap too. Low Balling your figures to get jobs only hurts yourself and everyone in the profession. Stick to your guns and charge what your worth.

It's not the area. In my seminars (afterwards) I can't count the times somebody said "how much do you charge" and when I answered they said "wow, I'm moving to Texas because where I live the competition charges $X (a lot less)" then they are shocked when I say "well that's the "going rate" (or close in %) where I am too." It's not the customer, or your "competition" it's you . (not you personally, anybody in your position) You believe what you say "What this does is make owners and contractors want everyone in the profession to go that cheap too." and that is simply not a fact. The fact is 87% of all purchasing decisions (from the shirt you buy at the store to a service like striping) are based on Perceived Value . Now there is the other 13% but forget them, let somebody else have those jobs. But 87% of the people you talk to (believe it or not) will base their decision on where they think they are getting the best value , not the lowest price . But you have to realize that is a proven statistical fact (not from me but from people who have spent millions on research about purchasing habits). Then you have to remove the "bidding" mentality from your way of thinking. Even in your subconscious the term "bid" implies it's like an auction...the best price wins; and that's just not true 87% of the time. You need to structure your entire way of thinking, marketing, selling and offering "proposals" that present the best perceived value. Note: The reason it is "perceived" is because unlike a tangible product (example apples are 69 cents a lb. you can pick the apples that appear to be freshest & the best value) a service product does not exist until after the sale is made. So the value must be "perceived". Not to give too much of my seminars here but: do you realize it's proven fact that in an area with competing stores like Target, K-Mart etc. Wal-Mart is more expensive on approximately 80% of the items they sell? But they are the ultimate example of creating the perception that they are always cheaper. (It would take volumes to describe all they do to achieve this but it goes from their advertising to their careful research on where to place every "price leader" in the store, signs, images, etc. to create & reinforce that perception...they are the masters of that game and it involves EVERY last thing they do. PS: Pardon me for being repetitive but go back to my first response in this thread and then Ken's comments on the word "bid".

This is what’s eatin me. I have a customer that has their lot striped every other year and I have been the guy doing it for the last 3 times. My price has stayed the same and they awarded it to me each time until this year. Lost to a lower bidder. Never even told me it was going out to “bid” just “could you send us your proposal to restripe our lot” I was shocked when I followed up and they told me the news. I said “you’re kidding, why did you give it to another company?” They said “our corporate office went with a lower bidder” I drove in today to take a look sure enough, stencils don’t match up and they went a little wider on some of the striping. Maybe next time someone will come in even lower than me and the other guy and there will be 3 different stencil types going on. Part of me wants to walk through with the (previous) customer and point out the slop work but the better part of me just says %@#$ it. Not going to waste my breath. They only care about the bottom line. Just see how long it holds up, something tells me it won’t last 2 years.

You think that's bad. I just lost my largest contract. Roughly 350 jobs per year, with a gross of about $100K. I had been doing paint work for them since 1994 and striping since 1998 along with all kinds of other work. Even worse I didn't even get an opportunity to submit a bid. Just a phone call saying "hey buddy, you need to stop...right now!" I said bullsh#t...I'm halfway through the work for this quarter! So, they were "so kind" as to send me a letter, giving me 30 days. Merry Christmas! Per the letter, this was an effort to reduce the number of vendors (corporate steamlining). So they awarded the contact to the guy who powerwashes their lots. Needless to say, with double bookings, I've seen their work...if you could call it that. I couldn't fit in one post the number of obvious mistakes, overspray, splattered stencil work, or no stencils period, inferiior paint.... etc. These guys are at least 2-3 inches off on their starts. They obviously lack the experience and the proper equipment to do the job. The difference, I WILL let everyone and anyone know. I've already taken enough pictures on one job to prove my point! ONE JOB! With that said, If anyone is contacted by BJS janitorial/pressure washing out of Rowlett, Texas,about subbing, even one job in TX,OK or LA. Contact me immediately... I have a vested interest. Thanks and have a Happy Holiday !! Dwayne

I'm not trying to be a smart-a** but this stuff is a lot of what I teach. You guys are both perfect examples of what an entire segment of my marketing seminar was devoted to this year. I joked at the start that for 9 years I have called it "Marketing for the Long Run" and that still applies; but that nowadays maybe I should call it "Marketing for Survival" because if you're not doing the "business" of the business (meaning the not painting or whatever stuff) you probably won't make it many more years...it's getting tougher all the time, and only the best will survive. And that does not mean the guys who paint the best quality lines! Hopefully it will, but you can have great painting skill and lose a job to somebody who out-did you on the "business" work and eventually be out of business. I have always had a segment called the 3 R's of marketing, but this year just for emphasis (although I talked about it before I wanted to "drive it home" this time) I added a 4th "R"... Retention ...and that's where you missed the boat. The biggest mistake you can make now is to blame the customer or the power wash guy or whoever...it's not their fault you lost those jobs... it's yours because you weren't using plan (guessing but I would bet money) for customer retention. And these days you have to have a retention strategy and work it ...or some other vulture will eat away at you "dependable" clients.

That sounds fine, special marketing techniques and all but the only way to retain some customers it seems is to give them the lowest price you can muster. This means Hey Yall, lets drive the market down untill we are all out of business. I actually lost a bid once because the guy said I was "significantaly lower than the other bids" (its funny how that guy actually calld ME to tell me this, wanted to know what kind of paint i was using etc...) whatever.. Guess the point here is you win some you lose some whether you send them letters promoting your services, send them holiday cards, box of candy, free pens, it doesn't matter. When corporate office is calling the shots you're just fair game like the rest of them.

Don is right on. No one ever walks into a retail biz and says I am going to pay you more just because I like you or I have been buying from you for years and not going to shop. I am usually the highest in this area but I don't apologize for it. I just try to sell quality and dependability and always offer references. Yes I sometimes loose a previous account to a lower bid but they usually come back. I know what I need to make a decent profit and don't cut my prices. I have on occasion included beads to let the customer know we offer services some of the competition don't. I would rather go out of biz from lack of work than working and not making a profit. At least my equipment would be in better shape to sell to that low bidder. Milt

Patch wrote on Dec 9, 2006:Go to #18

Guess the point here is you win some you lose some whether you send them letters promoting your services, send them holiday cards, box of candy, free pens, it doesn't matter. When corporate office is calling the shots you're just fair game like the rest of them.

No, you are completely missing the point, if you are blowing money on any of the completely useless items you mention please stop now. Total what you spend, and send a check made out to me...you will get just as much results as far as sales and at least I'll call up and thank you Do you think any of that junk has anything to do with retention? Simple question: When was the last time you needed any type goods or service and thought "I have a pen with a number on it" and found the pen and called the company? Ever? (I have never in my marketing career-since 1974-as yet met a single person that looked on a pen) Some businesses may seem different but aren't. I do have a magnet from the local $6.99 pizza joint on the fridge but only because I have CRS for numbers and their's and my pharmacy are very similar (and I can't get the kids a $7 pizza at the drug store) but I don't buy from them BECAUSE of the magnet, it's because even though their pizza is not as good, and I wouldn't eat it, my kids like it and it's $7 for a large when I need to feed the kids quick or they have friends over and I need 4 or 6, and I can't remember the number. If I wanted pizza, I'd get the phone book and call the little Italian restaurant on the edge of town, no delivery, twice as high, but they offer take-out and the pizza is GREAT. Now in both cases I am buying with my money ...but my motivations are different. The magnet gets used but doesn't really influence my buying decisions at all. If you do some reading you will start understanding that sales/marketing starts with what motivates the buyer and whether or not you "get it" and know how to satisfy that motivation. If you want to continue thinking the way you do that's fine with me, you may do OK but never great, and odds are you won't even make it many more years. The "easy money" in this business was always few and far between and now it's becoming non-existent. Basically you are a craftsman and proud of it. And that's fine. But that has nothing to do with being a businessman (owning/operating/growing a successful business). On the other extreme you can't do terrible work & get repeat business but the guys here who in the 80's started striping part-time and built by far the largest striping corporation in this area in a fairly short time have never delivered the "perfect" work of craftsmen. But they have made a boat-load of money and have had almost every super-mall in this huge metro-area sowed up for years. They are big enough they have paint machines & custom truck beds made to their specifications so every employee is familiar with every thing and they have the very specific tools they need to be productive. On a new job one crew lays out, another will come to paint, you get the idea. (And because they work people to death to gain efficiency believe it or not they don't use "pushers" they would rather drop 4 guys with machines on a job than 1 or 2 on riders. Point is they built a huge business and made themselves a boat-load of money and got out of striping themselves just as fast as they could, they wanted to be businessmen running a striping business not craftsmen painting stripes. Just like you never saw Michael Dell assemble a PC. Now in this business if you don't want to be "huge" you can be both a craftsman and businessman but by your posts you are ignoring the businessman side. Statements like in that last post about what you think property owners want or what makes corporate types buy (and the pens and cards which you must have somehow thought had some slight thing to do with retention, but are 100% useless) show you have almost no understanding of marketing/sales/etc. The "business" side of business (getting customers is job 1 nothing works without them. And keeping one is 600 times cheaper than getting a replacement!) I am not talking about what I say or teach or my seminars or anything I do. I am talking about what any notable person/book/speaker/course whatever; teaches about sales/marketing. And I'm not criticizing you as a person. Many, many people get into pavement-related businesses (why it attracts them I'll never know) thinking somehow it doesn't involve as much "business" as say running a store or whatever. It is cheaper to buy a machine & start striping than to open a store I guess; but to get past that takes the same business skills as any other "business" that sells something.