Compsensation Help!

Don't step off of your soapbox Randy, the Davis-Bacon act should have been repealed years ago. It is and has been a huge club used to keep the unions in power. For those not familiar with it read this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis%E2%80%93Bacon_Act Having been a union contractor in the past I can say that unions are more about nepotism and good ol' boy mentality and less about skilled labor

Quoting RandyV, March 10, 2011 (that post is not in this thread):

I guess it depends if you believe in a free market economy or socialism. In a socialist economy where everyone is only expected to do their share, there is no reward for excellence - hence the problems with state government costs in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan and more than half of our state governments across the nation. Let the average person slide by without incentive to do better and it appears to be human nature for most people to fall into the path of the herd rather than stand out from it. Most people here on PLP are entrepeneurs and business owners with a drive which is above the masses. We are the exception to the rule and need to recognize what it takes to run our business according to our goals. If our goal is to grow our business, we need to implement procedures designed to accomplish that end not allow stagnant methods of management or compensation that would stifle growth. So I guess a carrot and stick is certainly an appropriate analogy but I wouldn’t' put it to a prospective sales person that way . . . . . . How about calling it an upward growth strategy? That has a nice ring to it. I am sure if we take a few phrases from our political leaders, we could come up with all kinds of catch phrases that might be politically correct or that have been proven with focus groups to be accepted terminology. Side note: I went to a pre construction meeting for striping 2 underground parking garages under state of Michigan govt offices yesterday. There were 6 contractors/subcontractors in attendance and I believe 10 people from the state. Tell me that anyone would question if those 10 peoples job couldn't have been done by 5. To top it off, we will have to pay our employees prevailing wage - about $31/hr and of course submit certified payroll reports to prove what we are paying. The waste in government is rampant and bowing down to labor unions by forcing us non union companies to pay prevailing wage causes all of us and the government (at all levels) undue increased cost. I'll step down from my soap box now I think there could would be a more healthy "small business" state of entrepreneurialism if health care was a bit more socialist. My business plan worked because I had a partner that worked at a large corporation. She got sick and was in the hospital for about 6 months. I lost my insurance in August and could not afford to pay all the bills myself and afford non-corporate insurance rates for myself. I probably have been to a hospital for medical care 5 times in the past 40 years... didn't have insurance for the 1st time ever & ended up cutting my hand with skill saw. Now I have 40 something thousand in medical bills which I will need to pay off with Parking Lot Striping income which has not entirely kept up with the cost of Traffic Paint, Gas, food, and MEDICAL COSTS, or.. just about anything else. I think a lot of people lump small business and large business realities together, but I don't automatically see it that way.

Quoting RandyV, March 10, 2011 (that post is not in this thread):

I guess it depends if you believe in a free market economy or socialism. In a socialist economy where everyone is only expected to do their share, there is no reward for excellence - hence the problems with state government costs in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Michigan and more than half of our state governments across the nation. Let the average person slide by without incentive to do better and it appears to be human nature for most people to fall into the path of the herd rather than stand out from it. Most people here on PLP are entrepeneurs and business owners with a drive which is above the masses. We are the exception to the rule and need to recognize what it takes to run our business according to our goals. If our goal is to grow our business, we need to implement procedures designed to accomplish that end not allow stagnant methods of management or compensation that would stifle growth. So I guess a carrot and stick is certainly an appropriate analogy but I wouldn’t' put it to a prospective sales person that way . . . . . . How about calling it an upward growth strategy? That has a nice ring to it. I am sure if we take a few phrases from our political leaders, we could come up with all kinds of catch phrases that might be politically correct or that have been proven with focus groups to be accepted terminology. Side note: I went to a pre construction meeting for striping 2 underground parking garages under state of Michigan govt offices yesterday. There were 6 contractors/subcontractors in attendance and I believe 10 people from the state. Tell me that anyone would question if those 10 peoples job couldn't have been done by 5. To top it off, we will have to pay our employees prevailing wage - about $31/hr and of course submit certified payroll reports to prove what we are paying. The waste in government is rampant and bowing down to labor unions by forcing us non union companies to pay prevailing wage causes all of us and the government (at all levels) undue increased cost. I'll step down from my soap box now

Markings #1, I think everybody agrees that medical costs are out of control and some kind of reform is needed. But that is a long way from believing that other taxpayers should subsidize you and your medical costs. Socialized health care sounds like a great idea until you travel the world and find that it doesn't really work very well. You probably believe that you need help to have a decent life. I can't help but wonder where you got the idea that others should foot the bill for your life? Do you also expect others to pay your rent and to put the food on your table? Once you stick your hand into the government pocket for help where will it stop? What else should the government help you with? Just remember one thing, the pocket that you stick your hand into isn't the governments, it's mine and every other American taxpayers pocket that you are picking. And those tax dollars that you want the government to dole out are taken under duress and threat. Why do we hand over at least 50% of everything we earn in the form of taxes? It is the threat of prosecution and jail if I refuse to fund every program that some politician who has no concept of the unsustainable debt that he chooses to burden me, my children, grandchildren and unknown generations beyond with. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it and find out that it ain't as wonderful as you had hoped. Like Randy I'll jump off the soapbox too.

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it." The late Dr. Adrian Rogers, 1931 - 2005 Freedom This sums it up. Dick

I am not asking for a free hand. I work hard and take care of business. I think mega consolidation of health care.. and its raising costs and profits and limitations is starting to make it obtainable for the average small time parking lot striper like me if I need to purchase my own Health Insurance on the open market as an individual, let alone provide it for an employee. Are you able to provide good insurance with enough money left over for a decent wage decent wage for your self and your employees?

Markings, I don't believe Cali is saying that the costs associated with the existing system are not out of hand. Just that subsidising anyones premiums with money from the government is not the answer. If the govt is subsidising a social program (and government run health care IS a social program), it must first steal that money from someone else before it can give it to you. If our political leaders (and lets be honest, both sides of the aisle) were really interested in fixing the problem, they would pass tort reform as a start but they don't want to kill that cash cow quite yet.

Calif Striper, I never said anything about me wanting my insurance subsidized with your tax dollars. There is already massive government heath subsidization, and industry reallocation of premiums for the poo r, the under-insured , the uninsurable , and the non-insured . You are already paying the price for these costs or subsidies... 'one way or another' ..and the health industry seems to think that it works well for their profit model. All I know for sure is, is that you are disadvantaged if you are a self employed individual trying to find reasonable heath care insurance on the open market. Yet, the insurance companies have been making record profits... why would I be in their corner!

Markings #1 wanting your health care subsidized with my tax dollars is exactly what you said in your first sentence. "I think there could would be a more healthy "small business" state of entrepreneurialism if health care was a bit more socialist." In my first sentence I stated that health care needed reform. By reform I don't mean adding more people to the gravy train of government handouts. I agree whole heartily with Randy who mentioned the first step that is needed is tort reform. I don't have a particularly high regard for politicians and most of those started out as attorneys. I happen to have a very strong belief in the freedom that is uniquely American. Self reliance and limited government are the path that leads there. I also believe that anyone who suggests that any socialist acceleration on the slippery slope that we are already on does not support the spirit of American exceptionalism. I am fifty six years old and have my entire working life been an entrepreneur. Quite frankly in my life experience I can't think of very many problems that weren't made worse with government intervention. I have strong views about what is right with America and what is wrong with it. Since most people are victims of government schooling I find that they tend to have a poor concept of what America is and how we got here. The following link is informative and illustrates much that is misunderstood. I only hope that you see that socialism in all forms is sending us in the wrong direction. http://www.wimp.com/thegovernment/

Calif Striper, I know what i said. I said "...a bit more socialist" Look up the term for Social or National Heath care and see if it states Government Subsidized Medicine... or whatever? If nothing else could you please answer these 4 questions: 1) As it stands, who is already paying a large portion of the costs for the non-insured medical procedures or Government assisted programs? 2) while the insured are subsidizing non-payers shares, who is making billion dollar record profits? 3) Can you afford to pay for comprehensive Insurance without being lucky enough to also belong to a closed group with a special rate.? 4) Do you think obtaining Medical Insurance for a hired worker could be considered "the right thing"? 5) Can you afford Medical Insurance for hired help.* * This topic was about compensation.

Even though you asked me to answer four questions I'll respond to all five questions that you listed. If you wish to continue this further i suggest that we do so in the After Hours section. 1- Me and the other 53% of Americans who actually pay federal income tax (47% pay none) 2- I assume the answer you want to hear is the insurance companies. Although it is fellow Americans who are truly reaping those profits in the form of stock dividends. Demonizing the insurance companies is so much easier than attacking Mr. and Mrs. stockholder for expecting a return on their investment. But is sounds like you want the government to step in to put a halt to the forces of the free market system. I might add that it is the free market system that allows you to be in business. 3- My particular situation is not important. Everyone needs to decide what works for them. If you cannot afford health care perhaps you aren't making choices that best serve your situation. 4- Supplying employee health insurance is the individual choice of the employer. If paying for health insurance will bankrupt the company than it is the wrong choice because then the employee will be without a job too. 5- Again my personal situation is of little relevance. A company compensates their employees as it sees fit. Often a company offers benefits to keep good employees working for them. If they don't take care of those employees the employee may leave for where they perceive the grass to be greener like starting their own business. Often the entrepreneur finds out that the grass was not greener. That self employed person can then develop an attitude that it is the governments function to assist him in his quest to be self reliant by socializing health care. To get back to my original disagreement with your post you said "....a bit more socialist" a bit more is far too much and completely unacceptable. Ok, to the beginning of your post explain to me how "Social or National Health care" are not Government (taxpayer) Subsidized Medicine.

AADD (Adult Attention Deficit Disorder) strikes again. What started out as a side comment became a rabbit chase and then lead to a hijacked thread and is now starting to look like it may be deteriorating into a playground pissing contest. The original topic of this thread was about direct monetary compensation for a sales person. While I think that some of the ensuing dialogue does address some worthy issues, Only 2 posts have actually tried to address the topic posted by Bryan. Bryan posted a very good, well written valid question that truly deserves a dialogue here. I am certain we have many good business people on this forum capable of providing some real insight on this issue. I also know that Bryan is not the only one here looking for information on how to structure a fair compensation for salespeople in a way that will also be productive for the business. Bryan Shively has only posted on this forum 1 time. He asked clear direct questions and provided context for what and why he was asking. Based on his post, I believe he can and will make valuable contributions to our discussions here on PLP. Bryan, as for me, welcome to PLP and please don’t give up on us because of a little AADD and rabbit chasing. All in all, PLP is one of the best and most active industry specific forums I have found.

I made a type-0 Tar & feather me! Compensation should never include Health Care Access? (I don't see this as a side comment, but maybe not wanted?) If you work someone full time without giving them the means to heath care who is going to pay their bill when thy get sick. (this was off topic, but go *%$# ...).

Brian what I would like to know is how you can bid a job that states in their specifications for their sealcoat job: "The first coat will be applied at a minimum of 32 mils wet/12 mils dry, the second coat will be at least 26 mils wet/10 mils dry and the final coat will be at least 21 mils wet/8 mils dry. Materials with an application or coverage rate of gallons per square yard are not acceptable"? With them stating "Materials with an application or coverage rate of gallons per square yard are not acceptable" voids the specs and the contract. So how could you bid the job? The other thing is where was your company’s protection with your company contract for them to sign? There were also no written warranties or guarantees for that job. Turk 182

1. ME, the taxpayer. 2. The greedy corporate leaders. 3. No 4. Yes. 5. No.

Wow this thread is something else. Today is the first time i have even looke in this Forum and can not beleive all the great info and debates i am finding....