Graco LineLazer IV

is the linelazer IV really that much different from the III? I got a quote from a local SW at $4475.00 with 2 guns...........how's that? I did go to the Expo in Vegas but we got there near the end of the show and didn't have a lot of time to browse all of the exhibits.

Yes it is.... Saw them at the EXPO. Graco is still making advancements in ergonomics and improvements in overall function....better handle bar configuration, less vibration, better gun mounting etc, etc,. I wish Speeflo would follow suite.

I'm with you \\\STRIPES///! Come on Titan, you out there? That gun carriage contraption does not even count. Let's see some balancing and better handle bars, that's all I ask. And make (expletive) sure any refinements are compatable with the LazyLiner. I remember one time making a comment at the local striping machine manufacturer about the LL and how much it benefits us etc. The guys tells me they more interested in developing the self propelled striper, I wanted to slap him upside the head...

I have worked with Titan on development of the power drive unit. They are barely keeping their heads above water on the striping end of their business. I tried the NEW self propelled unit in their parking lot. BEFORE anyone buys one, get a demo on the unit. Its not like a regular striper, since the rear wheels are the drive wheels it is VERY hard to turn lots of upper body strength required. And you still have one big problem, One power drive unit and one color. The engineers at Titan need to get their heads out of the dirt and look at the way people stripe.

I agree with Ross and Jim. Jim, anything you can do to get them out of the shop and into the field would be greatly appreciated. They had good intentions on that "sled" addition but it shouldn't have made it all the way into production.

I sat down with the head Titan rep at the Las Vegas Expo and told him the same thing. Pull your heads out and start thinking of what striper's need and what works instead of Home Depot laser pointers and useless gun carriages (that make the machine much harder to use) and also asked "why in the heck did you bring a self-propelled unit to a show? With LazyLiners self-propelled stripers are useless and it makes you look bad because anybody that stops by your booth and touches it thinks "these things weigh a ton" and walk on by, never realizing that it was "self propelled" or whatever. (As useless as a self-propelled Billy Goat, at least they had an excuse for bringing one to Atlanta, their dealer in Atlanta had ordered all the "show" items.) For that matter they could make a deal with LL to "private label" LazyLiners with a few changes here & there & some different paint and have a PowrLiner brand "pusher". I tried to point out Graco was burying them for 1 reason . Graco LISTENS to what striper's want. While I think it's useless many people love the computer do-hickeys and they have made real improvements in gun mounting etc. It's just giving customers what THEY want instead of what some designer THINKS they want (like gun carriages or self-propelled). I told him I could give him 4 or 5 tips right then that would make the machines better and not cost much if anything, and let him know I was a devoted SpeeFlo (now Titan) user for many years. Here is what is wrong with Titan...and I hope they read it! He told me in no uncertain terms that I didn't know what I was talking about (even though he knew I had used their machines for many years) and that THEIR research showed the gun carriage was the most wanted thing by stripers followed only by self-propelled & laser pointers. No, I am not making this up! Titan never built great stripers. They bought SpeeFlo and so they got a line of great stripers (now Wagner has bought the whole bunch) but Wagner was building stripers and SpeeFlo pumps were being used by other striper manufacturers YEARS before Graco built their first striper. Titan does not listen or care what you (the customer) wants at least at the corporate level. Graco got where they are (from not even making stripers, to dominating the market in something like 2 or 3 years when they started) by LISTENING to what the people who held the handlebars wanted, and then building it. They have the best pump in the business (IMHO... I know Cormac disagrees) but they will gradually be out of the striper business because they don't care about what the customer really wants and can use to do the job better, easier, or faster. If I was buying tomorrow I would have to take a long look at a 200HS IV (in spite of the do-hickey computer) because Titan doesn't care what I think I need. Graco does. (and losing devoted, long-time customers is what marks the beginning of the end for any company) (Somebody E-mail Titan and tell them to read this thread. They probably won't care but somebody at the company is bound to care about sales, unless the stripers are a write-off for the huge, world-wide, corporation that is Wagner.)

Graco's chief engineer over striping machines put himself through college striping parking lots. In fact by the time he graduated, he had several crews and was very successful. Others in the company really care about parking lot stripers, they get out and spend time with contractors to see what they can do better. The head of marketing for Graco Corp worked with me a couple of days, snapping chalklines and changing colors in a machine so that he could see what the work is like. I had Speeflo machines until Titan bought them, then you couldn't get replacement parts for a while, and I bought a Graco LLII 3500 because I had to work. I liked it so much that I sold my SpeeFlo to Ken.

They claim the Head enj. at Titan striped for at least 10 years before running to Titan. They do have several good people in devolopement but the head people have no clue. They claim the self propelled unit can do everything a LD/LL can do. I laughed and told them that I would bring down my rider and go against there machine. Still no phone call on the challange. Just so people know I live in the same town as Titan and my shop was 1 block from their office. But never the less I love my GRACOS. GRACO Jim

I own all Graco's, and love them. But I will admit that if you look at the Titans at the shows they do look cool, but when it comes to functionality, I don't think they have it. Why just a 12 gal paint hopper? that is like the auto makers that make the window washer just below the gallon you buy it in. Also look at the carts, I don't remember which model, but one I saw at the show looked like it had a similar frame to the old Graco 3500, you would think they would update. Now from an outsider they do have cool toys, the laser, the added gun wheel assy, the light..But I guess you can add those to the Graco too... It's just a Chevy / Ford thing... We even talk that way too, there is a guy here that runs Titans, and he claims that due to the "better pumping system" he won't get any overspray....C'mon..We can go back and forth for hours, I guess it is still a commercial striper and better than an ol Trusco ...I am sticking with Graco though...

I just bought the same light that Titan sells for 12.95 without the fancy bracket. The retail from Titan is 50.00. Nice mark up they are making on all of us. Jim

I have to agree with Don about Titan, they have no reps on this forum, and Cormac is good enough to help out us Titan users, I think in order to push Titan in the right direction we may need to get in touch with Wagner Germany which at the end of the day is the Head Office. You can guarantee if these Titan striper's where used in Germany for 90% of their striping they would have been heavily refined and vastly improved. The thing is they are not, they hardly ever use paint over there. But that doesn't mean the head bloke in Germany knows he is loosing striper customers left right and center outside of Europe... I know Germans they won't like that and the country is in a major slump. The other thing is and I am be wrong but lets rememebr that these pumps we use from the titan/Wagner company are NOT built specifically with the striper in mind. They are developed for the painting and decorating contractor first and for most then put on a striper cart, with the price escalated, thats why I buy the bare units as well and get the local welder to make me a cart up and I have saved thousands. If they are going to charge such a big add on for transferring a lowboy to a striper's cart at least do some thing to warrent it. I can't really comment on the mechanics of things as you all know, but what I do see is that Graco are going out their way to improve there products in striping.

ERR Don, You kidnapped and sidetracked The Linelazer IV thread. A little historical correction for you. Graco owned the airless truck pump market for in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Graco began sharing it with Speeflo as a result of a California fellow named Gary Givens in the mid 80's. Gary used Speeflo on palletized stencil rigs. The truck pump business is all about price. Trucks are awarded on bids. Lowest price wins. If you are a manufacturer of trucks and win a bid you look to reduce cost where you can. If you can save $200 on each pump and $100 on each gun (paint and bead) you do it. Regarding walk behind stripers Graco made an airless striper called the Faststriper in the late 70's or early 80's. It had an air operated airless pump.

Ahhh, the long line equipment. I have been told by two different striping machine manufacturer employees that the focus is on their long line equipment. Now where do you suppose that trickle down info came from? From the top, and they don't seem to care about what the customer wants or for that matter what the trend in the market is. Those same two manufacturers seem to be phasing out their 30 year old design or poorly designed or needed an update years ago design walk behinds and selling "brand X" machines as their own. They give up is how I see it. I can only imagine the long line equipment is designed with the same attitude as the pushers. And about the mark up on the parts, my word what a racket. They should be ashamed of themselves. The claim that the self propelled units can do what a LL/LD can do is absolutely rediculous. Whoever said that needs a swift kick in the (expletive), and if I were at the top of one of these companies and I heard anyone say something as ignorant or nieve as that I would let them spend the next six months following that self propelled POS around. Like I said once before, self propelled is for fat lazy city/state workers who don't want to push the machine up the ramps of the trailer. How simple is it? Do you want to ride or walk? Enough said.

Cormac wrote on Mar 14, 2005:Go to #12

ERR Don, You kidnapped and sidetracked The Linelazer IV thread. A little historical correction for you. Graco owned the airless truck pump market for in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Graco began sharing it with Speeflo as a result of a California fellow named Gary Givens in the mid 80's. Gary used Speeflo on palletized stencil rigs. The truck pump business is all about price. Trucks are awarded on bids. Lowest price wins. If you are a manufacturer of trucks and win a bid you look to reduce cost where you can. If you can save $200 on each pump and $100 on each gun (paint and bead) you do it. Regarding walk behind stripers Graco made an airless striper called the Faststriper in the late 70's or early 80's. It had an air operated airless pump.

I wasn't talking long-lines. I can't remember the names, they went away after SpeeFlo started making their own, but there were a couple of companies using SpeeFlo pumps on walk-behinds back in dem ole-days...and I wasn't hijacking a thread (\\\Stripes/// brought it up), I was actually giving Graco a compliment. You know as well as I they had an almost non-existent share of the walk-behind market (so small you say they made them but my dealer who also sold Graco didn't know they did when I bought my first striper) until they introduced the LineLazer and within 2 years they were THE dominate player in the market and remain so, unchallenged. (I would have bought a Graco if they had been available, when I bought my first airless striper we had been using a home-made outfit we made with a high-end gas powered Graco machine and a home-rigged cart & gun set-up)

Hmm, I was trying to think who used Speeflo's on walk behinds and then it clicked, Gary Givens made those too. Prior to the Linelazers, KC's air spray was still the top dog. Your Wagner was a good unit for its day. California was airless striperland because of being the first to force the use of waterbornes. Binks was the big name especially in Northern California, largely driven by David Smith of Binks. DTC made a nice quality 4 tire model with a Graco pump. Anything DTC makes is surprisingly good quality. I was kidding about the hijacking.

It wasn't DTC I was thinking of, and don't know the person you named so I don't know if it was their company. I just remember there was one available when I bought my Wagner but it was huge by today's "cart" standards and over $2,000 more than my Wagner (and I couldn't get one from my dealer, I would have had to order one and then he could not have "warrantied" anything since it was just somebody else's product with a SpeeFlo pump. I guess they went out of business when the LL and SpeeFlo stripers came along. Back then they were the only machine with that type pump & output I ever saw. Those days it was 99.9% air spray machines. The Wagner was the only "name brand" airless striper my dealer could find in all his catalogs from major manufacturers. Like I said, we had built our own airless using a big Graco (don't know the model but it would run 3 guns for house painting) and that was why we were shopping only for airless, we had seen the difference in line quality airless made (even though that machine was a "contraption" if ever there was one).

Speeflo folks also turned their noses up at me when I made similar suggestions. As long as they make their indestructable pumps, I'll make the needed engineering changes. That sled is a joke.

Just bought an airlesco. With all the hype about Graco I'm wondering if I made a $3000.00 error

Pro-Line wrote on Mar 16, 2005:Go to #18

Just bought an airlesco. With all the hype about Graco I'm wondering if I made a $3000.00 error

A little much for an airlessco. It will do the job, but save your money so you can get a Graco or Speeflo latter.

I JUST BOUGHT THE GRACO 3900 IV ON THURS 09/30/05 ,I USED IT ALL WEEKEND LOVED IT ,I NOW HAVE TWO TITIN 8900 FOR SALE,WILL NEVER LOOK BACK, ANY ONE WANT TO BUY TWO 8900, GREAT PRICE $5,000 FOR BOLTH.CALL MIKE [phone removed].