MARK LINES ,BEFORE SEALCOATING. SO YOU CAN SEE THEM

DOES ANYBODY ON THE BOARD MARK THE LINES BEFORE SEALCOATING,? ? SO YOU CAN SEE THEM AFTER THE SEAL COAT IS DOWN,IF SO WHAT DO YOU MARK THEM WITH???I TRIED ALOT OF THINGS, THE ONLY THING THAT WORKED FOR ME THE BEST WAS DUCT TAPE.. ARCH IT UP IN THE MIDDLE,THEN STICK IT TO THE LINE,THE START AND FINISH OF THE LINE..SAVES ALOT OF TIME THEN LAYING OUT THE LOT AGAIN. UNLESS YOU GET SOME SEAL COATER THAT PUTS DOWN KOOL-AID THAT AFTER IT DRIES YOU CAN SEE THE LINES THROUGH THE SEALER. THIS IS KNOWN AS KOOL-AID MIX..FIRST 5 RAINS ITS GONE.. ARE SEALER IS NOT CUT. ITS SEAL MASTER SEALER,AND WHEN IT DRIES ITS BLACK.. REAL BLACK YOU SEE ANY OLD LINES, THATS WHY I WAS ASKING IF ANY BODY HAD ANY TRICKS OF THE TRADE,OTHER THAN MY DUCT TAPE.SOME OF THESE LOTS TAKE SOME GREAT TIME LAYING OUT..PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS DO IN A CASE LIKE THIS..ONE OLD TIMER TOLD ME TO USE CONCRETE NAILS ,POUND THEM IN THE LOT ON THE HARD TUFF LAY-OUT LINES, THEN RUN A STRING FROM NAIL TO NAIL.. NOT REALLY CRAZY ABOUT THAT IDEA.. SAYS IT WORKS..IF WE DIDNT MARK OUR LOTS AFTER SEALING, WE WOULD HAVE TO LAY EVERY ONE OUT..TELL US WHAT YOU GUYS USE.. THANKS IN ADVANCE

I also use sealmaster sealcoat and I have found that either the duct tape method or using pastic cap nails (used for tar paper on roofs) work the best. With the plastic cap nails you will have no trouble seeing them after two good coats of sealer are applied.

Fonz's duct tape method always made the most sense to me but you can always see the lines even after a great sealcoat (99.9% of the time). You just have to know what you are looking for. It's all about getting the sun at the right angle and seeing the ever-so-slight difference in the "smoothness" of the sealer over the paint. Unless the stripes are 99.9% gone it just takes being able to spot the very slight difference in the finished texture from the paint under the sealer. (And yes when I was "newer" and couldn't see in dark & such I used the tab nails (once-not a good idea) and tape etc. until I learned to see what others couldn't; often a helper would be with me quite some time before they got to where they could see why I was telling them to move their end of the chalk line or cable over half and inch one way or another...but eventually they get to where they can see them too)

I have often been leery of using plastic cap nails.....it just does not seem like a good idea since sometimes they kick to the side and knock a few stones loose but when you need to be able to stripe the lot at night and it is not lit up well and you are working after another seal coater whose crew uses a skidloader attachment to sweep lot which inturn sweeps off tape I have not been able to come up with a better way .

you can also use the plastic tabs that they use for roads after a chip seal. If they come off you can see where the tab was, We just did a chip seal job without any lines to follow. the tabs worked great.

I have to agree with Don I can almost always see where the old lines and markings are. Sometimes you just have to look at it from different angles with the way the sun hits it. I use to put electrical tape at all end lines, but that took a lot of extra time. After painting for a while you almost know where the lines should be.

Tru-Trac wrote on Sep 13, 2006:Go to #6

I have to agree with Don I can almost always see where the old lines and markings are. Sometimes you just have to look at it from different angles with the way the sun hits it. I use to put electrical tape at all end lines, but that took a lot of extra time. After painting for a while you almost know where the lines should be.

i use none of the above except for my eyes....

You're eyes are really your best friend in striping. \\\Stripes/// wouldn't be able to paint straight lines "freehand" at 30 mph from tic marks if he hadn't learned how. You CAN learn to see things you can't see now. I'm sure I could come to a sealcoated lot where you quite honestly couldn't see a thing and mark all the stripes for you with little or no problem... the few I might not be able to see I could layout in a jiffy by splitting the difference in ones I could see. I could probably also see stripes well enough to freehand a restripe on lots where so many lights were burned out you'd swear it was too dark to see anything. All this is like hitting starts & stops without the "crutch" of shingles or such, the brain is an amazing thing , if you keep looking long enough you will learn to see what you can't now. And as time goes by it will become easier & easier as your eyes train themselves on what to look for.

Don, I'm sure that's all fine and dandy in a world with no sunlight or tape measures. I know it's just a parking lot.

I am not sure a client would enjoy watching us pounding nails in his investment,pull them out when finished,and have multiple drain holes for three seasons of run off. Try polarized sun glasses,works good for us.If, that doesn't help I take the glasses and my son fishing,give him the glasses so he can watch the fish before they bite,and I have a cold one.

dbarnettt wrote on Sep 14, 2006:Go to #9

Don, I'm sure that's all fine and dandy in a world with no sunlight or tape measures. I know it's just a parking lot.

I'm sorry but that's a post I just don't understand the meaning of at all...

I can almost always see the line over teh new sealcoat. Just look at it from a few angles. You can see it. A old timer showed me that he used parafan wax and put a mark at the base of the lines before sealin. the sealer wont stick but the paint will. I never tried it but he was in business for 30 years

Don, maybe I should have said, that works fine when people don't see your work or check your measurements. I understand what you say about seeing the old markings and I really get what you say about starts and stops. It's all about training your self...muscle memory etc. I've been doing this for a long time and you give me a straight line to follow and I'll give you a perfect stripe 99% of the time. But with undulations in parking lots, especially blacktop lots, I prefer to have a true point of reference to work from. I just don't "eyeball" things or "split the difference". That's me. I may be on a lot, an hour longer than you would, but I leave knowing that I did the best job possible. Sorry, if I made you think too hard about that last post!

You missed my point. I didn't say any of those type things. I assure you I could repaint any sealcoated lot (conventional sealer) over the old stripes without having to pre-mark the old stripes unless they were 100% worn off. The best place to put stripes on sealcoat is over the old ones (or when the sealer wears you will have 2 sets of worn stripes going different places...very ugly and can be dangerous.) I just said you can ALWAYS see the old stripes if you learn "how" to see them. Then pre-marking, nailing, little bits of tape, are not necessary. I always cable my end lines (starts & stops) and chalk line over sealer to be 100% sure the lines look perfect (a bad line never shows up worse than on sealer or new asphalt) I never said anything about "eyeballing" as in guessing. I said on an old restripe in the dark I can usually see lines when others can't, so I can paint without chalking, not the same as on sealcoat or doing it "freehand" or guessing. On a poorly lit lot if I can see 2 or 3 little bits of the old stripe I can visualize the line by connecting the dots mentally, then it's as easy to paint a straight line as if the whole stripe was there. It's the same way \\\STRIPES/// paints between "tic" marks...he looks at the tic's and in his mind sees a solid line. BUT, back to sealcoat...I don't have to do anything but look to know where the chalk line goes so I'll be painting over the old stripe (and I never advise trying to just paint over the old stripes with no chalk because although you can get at an angle where you can see the old lines to chalk they might be invisible from behind the handlebars when painting) It was all about wasting time marking before sealing. As a striper and a sealcoater I assure you I tried nails, tape, elaborate schemes of making reference marks on curbs or other perimeter areas...about everything...then one day I realized because I was looking so hard for my pre-marks I could see the old stripes, at least enough to pop a chalk line...it was a "eureka moment" when I started kicking myself for having been wasting all that time & effort for so long. The "split the difference" in measuring was say you have 30 spaces under sealcoat & 1 was so worn you cannot see it at all for some reason. If every space has been 9' you can stretch a tape 18' from the chalk lines you could see on both sides "split the difference" and make one in the middle. If the original striper wasn't off, you'll be where he was and if he was off yours will still look right because it will be centered, the right angle, and the same width as the others. PS: I teach it in my seminars and always have done a "walk over" with every customer on completion to be sure they are happy...I ask them to inspect my work! It's a marketing tool. However in over 22 years of painting only 1 time have I had an engineer for a GC actually put a tape to one of my lines and "measure". He chewed me out because at this college 1 space was almost a foot wider than the others in that row. Until he calmed down and I told him if he looked up he would see the sign, that was the university President's space and the GC had instructed me to make it wider than anybody else's

One thing we will do with lots that have faded lines, is go and make small marks on the curbs using a lumber crayon. This way after the seal, if there are any questionable lines that we can't see, we can just confirm their location with the small marks.

we use to use pennies but it got costly i just did a job sunday and just before spraying we marked the with stones like 1/4 to 3/4 inch whatever piled up at the end from blowing lot

My 2 cents, I have rarely ever needed more than a chalk line to mark the starts and stops. I agree with Don that 99% of the time you can see some traces of the old line and can mentally connect the dots. Occasionally, I will make a chalk mark where the line meets the curb to help line things up. Also, if you are having trouble seeing the old lines, the best place to start is on the curb since the lines will be more visible there due to having less wear on them. I also agree with polarized glasses. I use them fishing and then driving. Now I wear them for work too. Makes the old lines easier to see and when sealcoating, cuts down the reflection so lightly applied areas are easier to recognize before the second coat. My question with taping is that if you tape each line individually aren't you at the mercy of the previous striper? I guess you could lay a string and then tape so the ends all match?

If you have money to burn and want to go high tech, visit your local surveyor's shop and pick up some magnetic nails and a locator. Pound the nails where you think they will do the most good to help you layout the lines. After paving or seal coating, move the locator over the general area and it will lead you to the exact spot where the nail head is located. Mark your spot and away you go. Leave the nail in for the next time the lot is sealed.