POLL: Have you ever replaced a Graco Clutch?

This is my first attempt at a poll, (RandyV's idea) so bear with me

That no for 12 machines. Jim

Line Laser II 3900, I am happy to say a big "NO" on the clutch.

Our oldest machine is a 1997 era 3500, and we have done NO clutches on it or any others. Hooray!!

:PI've used Graco 3900 for about 7 years now and have had no problems. Just the wheel bearings wore out

I have replaced one in something like 12 years. The guy at the repair shop works on Graco all the time, but he had never seen one go out before. If you have a Speeflo, I recommend not changing the hydraulic oil, that's when my problems wiith Speeflo started. A couple of days laster, I was doing a new restaurant and dripped oil all down the front sidewalk. Had to get paint thinner and rags and clean it up.

BornToStripe wrote on Mar 12, 2005:Go to #1

This is my first attempt at a poll, (RandyV's idea) so bear with me

I had to tinker with your last mod a bit BTS. It let people cast 5 votes so in theory someone could vote for "all of the above" by checking each box & hitting vote. If that was what you intended, by all means change it back.

I don't remember any propaganda stating that the electronic clutches on Gracos fail. However, I've heard many reports that they fail to engage properly... i.e. other problems in electronics. Graco didn't need to re-invent the wheel with respect to the pump configuration. Too many parts means less ability to diagnose and fix problems on the jobsite without taking it to a tech.. If you have to take it in, downtime/loss of revenue (income) costs more than the repair. Historically, the short throw pumps just can't take the abuse of our normal operating procedures. Recently, I was in a repair shop (pressure washer problem) and asked the owner why there were only Gracos in line to be repaired.. He answered... "because Speeflos never break!" In Graco's defense, I think they are the most refined striper on the market. I LOVE the ergonomics and attention to detal making it stripe straighter/easier. IMHO once you get the "calculator gizmo" out of the way, the Graco HS 200 (hydraulic) is THE best striper on the market. The "Gizmo" would last about 30 minutes in the trailer before getting damaged or knocked completely off. Plus, we'll be half way thru striping the job in the same amount of time it takes to get it calibrated. Besides, I'd rather use the time playing with "Josie's mama" (MB's term) after I get home instead of wasting it playing with a calculator in the middle of a parking lot

Ken, with all respect to you, you do make a few statements that are simply "out there" or incorrect. You offer assistance about as often as anyone on this site and I give you a lot of respect for that. Allow me to address the above referenced "statements" Clutches and the associated electronics are fairly trouble-free. I will say that if I do see failures it is typically with a new product introduction and an unforeseen glitch pops up. In all cases it is addressed immediately and absolutely and without cost. In the recent post where I felt it was a circuit board may have been at fault (in an attempt to help), and it may in fact not have been the board. Immediately the gizmo and cutsie comments came. The guy had a problem and I attempted to get him on the right track. Of your "many reports" that they "fail to engage", i would say that it would more likely be just the opposite, if there was an electronics/board issue they would fail to disengage. I remember another time you stated that, bear with me I am working from memory, that manufacturers want you to flush out machines on a daily basis, so that there is more parts business. Incredible. Sounds like a statement Joe would make. Your experiences will not work for everyone especially those that use waterbornes. They would have severe issues, regardless of who make the pump or pump type. I also think people should listen to the manufacturers maintenance schedules. You have been remarkably lucky having no hydraulic issues and never changing the hydraulic oil. I can tell you that you don't want to have to have the any hydraulic head worked on as it is can be fairly costly to repair as is the hydraulic feed pump. I have replaced a few hydraulic stripers due to hydraulic issues and more so parts availability and I would bet there is someone out there that sells hydraulic stripers (non Graco) that could say the same of direct drive. Regarding walking through repair shops, and never seeing Speeflo's. I think we walk through the same shop (Silverado) and I see them quite frequently, but not as many as Graco's. Ken, the reason for this is fairly simple. There are a heck of a lot more Graco's in the market and working everyday. Let's use some basic numbers, for every 100 stripers sold, lets say 75 are Graco, 15 are Speeflo, and the remaining are Airlessco, KC, JCL and others(really not privy to market share numbers but I am confident that it is up there). Assuming all airless manufacturers have equal reliability (which they don't), chances are in fact you will be 5 times more likely to see a Graco in the shop (Fonz help me with the stats). Regarding survival of the fittest (in you trailer), maybe there is an opportunity to make a no-frills Graco. Or maybe Graco should make some type of quick strapping or holding devise so that if others pack their trailer as you do, things wouldn't get damaged or Knocked off. I have never seen one knocked off so I am not sure where that came from. For that matter I have never seen a hydraulic head get knocked off. Same location. That was a joke BTW! Also I have never had to recalibrate one nor have been asked how by a contractor or service center. Ever! I know Randy had a software Glitch initially that counted incorrectly, but was fixed. The only calibration I have ever heard off is my counterpart(West coast) did on a month ago. It took less than a minute. I am very careful in the information I put out here(so that it applies to all paints, substrates, machines, etc.) and always go to great strides to not bash a competitive product. I attempt to educate all that come here in my area of expertise and learn from everyone else in their areas of expertise. I have been involved with pumps on a daily basis since 1978 and made my first airless striper in 1985, but I realize I don't know everything by a longshot. If I ever say something you do not agree with, I am certainly willing to explain my point and even retract it if needed. But be respectful or your Karma will suffer. I think Don is "padding" his!

"Clutches and the associated electronics are fairly trouble-free".... " it may in fact not be a board".... Thats my point.... you don't know until you take it in. What part am I "incorrect" or "out there"..... surely not the part about my thinking the Graco 200 is the best striper on the market..... or do you know something I don't? : Yep, I'm Joe's understudy....... that comment from a long time ago was tongue- in- cheek (as is this one) and it was non-specific to manufacturers. I have a dedicated Speeflo with latex in it 24/7. Just out of curiosity.... Is it possible to buy a 200 without the thing-a-majiggy? (Not sure what to you want to call it). Why wouldn't it be better as an option? Seriously, I'd love to have one (a 200) but have no use for the additional electronics and would rather not have to pay the extra.

Ken, Yes out there is: Yes, I guess saying that the 200 HS is the best without ever using one might be out there. But I understand your logic, it has the pump technology you prefer and the frame is vastly superior. So for high volume applications you are more than likely correct. For everyday parking lots, I take a 3900 any day. Thew comment that everyone should leave paint in machines. If you do in fact have spec. 1952D waterborne left in any machine 24/7 (regardless of manufacturer) , you will have issues. Any waterborne (regardless of spec) will rust tungsten carbide seats, Graco, Speeflo, Airlessco, and others. Implying that not maintaining equipment as recommended is a good thing, could cost someone big bucks. Think of Wendy, if her hydraulics went out and parts were not in the country, she would be out of business for a while. Are you really Joe's understudy? Kidding. Sorry I did not realize it was tongue in cheek because you do do some things differently which at times is both interesting and clever. Ken, I have had some"dog" stripers at Graco over the years (IMO), The PT Arrow in the 80's was one. In the 3-4 years we had them I never sold one. I would not. It was made for the entry, entry level user. 2 cycle engine, diaphragm pump, and a very insignificant frame. Pretty frightening. The point is some people have a conscience, as do I, and if it is a dog, I'd tell you to go elsewhere. I am referring to the "surely not the part about my thinking the Graco 200 is the best striper on the market". Not everyone is a (expletive). I know there will be a little "edited by" thing added here but all I did was clean up some "code" errors for Cormac. Didn't change a word of the post...Don

Cormac, Seriously and with no animosity nor sarcasm, I can say..... I'll always bow to (and highly value) your superior knowledge and experience pertaining to striping technology. Conversely, from my real world striping experience, conventional hydraulic pumps have been more dependable. Give me ka-chunk ka-chunk over rat-a-tat-tat anyday If I could just slow down enough to move a couple of my Speeflo pumps over to those two old Graco frames out in the junk pile......... My Karma may suffer but I'll steadfastly remain loyal to hydraulics. I'm surprised at the poll results. Never would I have expected 5 out of 18 respondents having problems.....that is 27% of the respondents. Perhaps Don's padding that too!!!

Overall, I think you will find that reliability is not an issue with clutches, electronics, or Hydraulics. It is the silly uninformed pot shots some make about clutches, hydraulics, and even electronics that have very little basis in fact that I am not a big fan of. Believe it or not, I have been known to defend hydraulics at times. It has its place. BTW, your karma is OK in my book, but again how did Turner get to 14?

He paid me I have my original 3500 for a long time with only a pump rebuild after who knows how many hours/gallons. I know there are many here that have more machines than I do and therefore have more experience-hours and may have had some problems. I have always run my machines at low RPM to keep the clutch engaged as much as possible thru the line, which cuts out a lot of the wear. I have worked with hydraulics even longer than I have striped, and love them. My allegiance to Graco is simply based on the ERGONOMICS and if the Titan owners can't tell the difference between 3900/5900's and their rigs, particularly when riding, well they are heartier souls than me. I like my luxuries. And I have pushed some clunker stripers..... And Ken, you know I thought the display on the 3900/III's was BS originally, but I've come to like them. Half an hour with one and you learn some things about your striping that you didn't know. (It took me a while to go from Loran-C on my boat to GPS/WAAS, but I'm glad I did. New technology will work for you if you let it.) I know you are die hard Titanman, and I respect that, but the Graco pump is a proven unit. That belt and swinging flywheel just don't get it for me. It's the same thing with the LL/LD "cults". I picked the one that would service me the best, without getting into the politics of who shot who in the foot. I bet some of y'all wouldn't change makes of pickups for love or money neither. I just hope Graco never sponsors a NASCAR Ford....that would hurt.