starting and stopping

One of my favorite tips I found on this forum. Using roofing tiles to start and stop your lines. I've been painting for the city for 19 years, and on my own for the last three and I still don't hit the start and stops perfect. Not to mention, it leaves you with perfectly squared lines at each end. Sure, it takes a little more time, but I think it is worth it. Keep in mind, most lots I have painted have under 2000 linear feet, I'm sure this method wouldn't be feasable on really big jobs. If ya don't throw in your two cents, how can ya expect change?

incoherent wrote on May 30, 2005:Go to #1

I still don't hit the start and stops perfect. Not

hing personal, many here have heard my speech on this subject for years. But read your quote above and realize you never will...at least as long as you keep using "crutches" you will never learn to walk. Learning to "hit" stops & starts is a simple matter of hand-eye coordination. The human brain is easily capable of learning to do it without thought just like it learned to ride a bike, drive a car, or any of a thousand other things you do everyday without "thinking" about it. To learn you must pick a point on your machine or gun, any point that suits you, and ALWAYS watch that point when it is at the right place for the stop or start to be where you want. And at first always set your gun up in exactly the same position while you are learning. You will miss a few for a while, just make sure when you miss it's on the "short" side... that can be fixed much easier than too long. Of course always be moving, never try to start or top from a standstill. I am a big fan of cables but if not use Ken's trimmer line idea to mark all your starts & stops at first. There is something about the three dimensional aspect of line or cable that makes it easier for your brain & eyes to "learn" than a flat mark on the pavement like chalk or whatever (even if it's a restripe and you can see the old ends, they are still "flat" so use a cable or such). A hundred stripes or two and you will (probably without noticing at first) find your brain has learned to work with your eyes and when your particular sight point crossed the "line" you "automatically" squeeze or release the trigger. And once that happens you'll never have to worry about it again. Soon you'll even be able to move the gun around etc. and still hit where you want, your brain will easily and almost automatically compensate for the difference in what it has learned. At first you may want to keep a few shingles around for a tough spot where you can't get lined up or moving just the way you want but get away from them as soon as possible. You may not believe me but the reason you "can't" do it is only because you haven't forced your brain to learn to. The shingles give you a "safety zone" like training wheels, so you never force your brain to learn. I don't just speak from my experience but from the positive feedback I have heard from literally dozens of stripers who I talked to over the years at the Expos and gave the same advice. The next year they came up & thanked me and said something to the effect of "I didn't believe you when you told me, and had some trouble at first, but now I hit them all the time, and I save all that wasted time & effort of carrying shingles". You can do it. Just remember the first time you took the wheel of a car or tried riding a bike how it seemed very complex, just like hitting those starts do now. But it's nothing more than a learned behavior and just like you don't think about every action of starting the car, putting it in gear, how far to turn the wheel, etc. anymore, soon you won't be "thinking" about when to squeeze or release the trigger. PS: While I don't think it's necessary (you can pick an existing thing to sight from instead of adding something else) if it makes you feel better you can use the tip in http://parkinglotplanet.com/forum/index.php/topic,836.0.html at first. But I'd still advise getting away from that as soon as you can. The less "stuff" to get in your way the better.

Incoherent if you are not comfortable enough to not use the shingles try this. Use the back edge of the shingle (the one closest to where your line will start.) Try hitting that spot right on the edge of the shingle where your line starts. Before long you will have the confidence to use the shingle for something more useful, Like putting them around concrete bumpers so you can spray them without getting paint on the asphalt. I use a 217 tip for that and it make a bumper look great. Keep up the good work.

Before arbitrarily deciding "it is worth it" to use shingles, try putting a value on your extra effort. Calculate how much time is involved in putting down then picking up a shingle (not to mention keeping it clean) for one stripe. Multiply that figure (15 sec., 30 sec., 45 sec.) by the number of stripes. At even a conservative base of $75 per hour and if it takes an extra half hour per job, the total expense for using shingles for a year is in the thousands of dollars. BTW an airless machine set up right makes a pretty sharp start.

Ditch the shingles! When I first started I used to use then too. The only way to learn is to do it without them. You should find that you will be able to hit your start and stop marks dead on in no time at all. As like with a lot of things...practice makes perfect.

I agree......ditch the shingles...too time consuming. If you want to practice, put water in the machine and go to an empty lot and do starts. Soon, as Don said your right brain/left brain(not sure which) will communicate with your right/left eyeball and voila..perfect starts.

Wont my roof leak without them?

If and when you go to any of the Expos, before you leave, you will hear the quote "shingles are for roofers".

Shingles are still usefull, when all your stalls are at an angle and you angle your tip to get a pointed start/stop and you have 3 or 4 lines that need the point facing the other direction or a square end I find it easer to lay down a shingle then readjust the tip for 3 or 4 lines.

Should a person have the gun already placed at the back wheel, it is easy to lean over and slightly twist the tip to any position. Takes about 3 seconds. Also, the gun at the rear keeps a person from having get off the Lazyliner and walk around to the front of the striper to reverse a tip if you ever have a clean out a clog.

Ken - I tried your method and all the leaning over gave me low back pain. Being as I am too dang lazy to actually get off the LineDriver, I came up with my own solution - I call it TipMonkey2000® - a small monkey that rides along with me and can adjust, clean and change tips. He is also useful for moving cones, holding string, throwing bricks at intruding motorists and dealing with PITA contractors. When not busy he picks the music for my iPod (he's a darn good DJ!), holds my drink (take that Graco!) and I am training him to hold an umbrella and fan me on hot days. The best thing - he requires NO WORKER'S COMP INSURANCE! Since you were the inspiration for the TipMonkey2000®, I of course named it after you. apologies to the creator of the TrunkMonkey

\\\STRIPES/// wrote on Jun 8, 2005:Go to #10

Should a person have the gun already placed at the back wheel, it is easy to lean over and slightly twist the tip to any position. Takes about 3 seconds. Also, the gun at the rear keeps a person from having get off the Lazyliner and walk around to the front of the striper to reverse a tip if you ever have a clean out a clog.

This would work fine if you were to turn the tip to the same angle in the opesite direction but if it was to be turned strait the stripe would be to wide. I am just saying there is a place for a little help now and then. and ofcorse I don't have a lazy rider.

Dwan, With all, and I mean all, due respect. This thing of "pointing" stripes is borderline obsessive-compulsive and almost every striper falls into that trap over something. Here's the test. Take 2 or 3 people who know nothing about the striping biz, take them to two or 3 lots, some with and some without points, don't tell them what they are looking for or even that you did them, just that you want some opinions like they were the owner of the place. I'll bet you nobody will ever notice it at all. If the ends are even & the stripes are straight (and the arrows point in the right direction) is about everything a property owner or manager will ever notice. (Although I did have a college's inspector who took a tape measure to EVERY last stripe on a job, luckily there were only about 50 spaces but he griped because some had a 1/8" difference until I explained the pavement wasn't prefect so the machine had to have some natural variation as it rolled across from one slab to the next... Once in 21 years but luckily all the other contractors on the job had warned me about him...) Now remember, I have been there 20 years+ ago and we tend to strive for perfection & details because we take pride in our work (good stripers in general). But sooner or later you realize every minute is money and NOBODY else will notice some of the precision you are the most proud of. At first you think "but I know my job is perfect" to rationalize but then you realize if you are the only one, you're wasting it because you had to pay too much to be a "one man" audience at your show. I'm not picking on you for this one thing, do it however you want. I'm just adding another "tip" for everyone. In a row of 100 stalls a 1/2" difference in an end or 2 is invisible to the naked eye, as is whether the corner of a crosshatch is perfectly square (within reason). Spend your time and effort on what people will notice. It's a "disorder" (the actual E-Myth) described so well in the book The E-Myth. Most people think they are businessmen when they are really tradesmen. I know from your posts you own the business, but you are not being a businessman in this case. You're stuck being a tradesman. Making things perfect nobody will notice and that make no real difference in the job quality except to please yourself, the dead giveaway of a tradesman. And I can't believe with what must be a fairly short season up there you're still pushing...and this isn't personal either but a tip for all the newbies too. For anyone besides a first year striper; as of about a year ago I decided "pushers" have been perfected enough and the price has come down to a point that they are no longer a luxury but a necessity for a professional striper. The time & labor difference is just too great, they pay for themselves too quickly. (This wasn't necessarily true years ago when they were $7.000 and required a lot of maintenance)

Don, You forget that Dwan has to load his equipment on a plane to get to some of his jobs - - a Lazy Liner would just add too much to his weight and space requirement. On the shingle thing, I used them on every line for 2 years then someone from Fine Line Industries (Lazy Liner people) told me what Don preaches about the crutch. I then did what Rock suggested until I felt I was proficient enough with the hand/eye coordination to pass my own scrutiny.

LOL Randy I thought you perfected the hand to eye thing in college...with beer mugs And sigh...I think I have tradesman blood in me...Scots/Irish/French/Dutch/Tradesman does have a ring to it....I can save money/act like I'm poor/lie about having any money/get all your money and still be able to do the work...

Dwan, You using airless? If not, you could buy a Graco 3400 and with the weight you'd save over one of those locomotive sized air stripers, you could afford to carry a Lazyliner! The overall weight would be similar!!! On an ailress, you can raise and lower the tip just as easily as twisting the tip!

Don, I fully understand what you are saying and if I was just in the business just to make money I may concider it. No maybe I would concider hiring someone else to do the work and then I would have more time to find more jobs to make more money. Striping is not my major income but for me to offer a full service to the customers I plow, sand, remove snow, and sweep, I must do it. Currently I only put down less then 300 gal a year and it takes me say 2 to 3 weeks total time if that. with a pusher it may cut my time by 30% what am I to do with the other 4 or 5 days? Sorry but at this time I don't feel it would be in my best interest. My machines are light (130 lb) and not hard to push. I would also need a bigger trailer, shop to store in the winter, more gas, and heaven forbid I already have enough equipment requiring over 250 sparkplugs. I guess what I am trying to say is I have 6 months to do my striping in and it now takes me 2 to 3 weeks. What would I save by using a pusher? As for the pointie lines it is personal, I like it, I notice it, I am proud of it, and I am going to keep doing it. I am at a point in my life ware I am the only one I have to please. I really don't care if no one else notices the little differences I do. My situtation may be a little different then most as I don't have to work, I want to work. If I want time off I just say no to work. In the last 23 years I have built my business to a point ware if I choose I would never have to work again. For a new person in striping I would fully recommend a pusher, and also like you try to recommend things to cut time on the job.

Just like I said Dwan, My post wasn't really aimed at you, I know you have a unique situation and should do what you want. I may not have worded it perfectly but I was using your post as an example for the newbies that might think such things were necessary and are trying to make a living just striping. No criticism intended at all.

Cool - I just figured out how to keep track of my equipment and how much time we need to spend on maintenance. Just count the sparkplugs! The more sparkplugs, the more maintenance. Let's see - 55 I think... Maybe the property tax people can just have me fill out a simple form... one question 1. How many sparkplugs do you have?

No tax for the Diesels?