Airlessco 3300 problem, maybe??

Hello all, I’m new to striping ( about 10 small jobs under my belt ) been power washing for 8-9 years. I’ve bought and been using an Airlessco 3300 from a rental company that works ok the only problem is when I turn the pressure knob from prime to pressure nothing happens (no pressure) until the last 2-3 turns. It’s like no pressure then full pressure, not much in between. I’m not sure this IS a problem or that’s the way this machine works. If not is there a solution? I’m thinking maybe a clog somewhere. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks Shane.

I'm thinking the 3300 is a diaphragm type pump. That means the pump is circulating paint at all times. The pressure is regulated by restricting the volume of paint being diverted back into the pail. Most pressure is developed when the control knob is at its max setting so little or no paint is diverted. I'm not knowledgeable in how that particular valve works, but I'd wager that is where the problem is located.

stripes is probably right.. take back to rental store and have them work on it.

Not sure how sensitive the pressure adjustment knob is Normally on the 3300, but....if once you get past the point that it responds and increases pressure, as long as it holds pressure you should be fine. Contrary to what you have been told here, there is no constant paint recirculation. The prime valve works just like any other, on or off. Also understand that the pressure knob has nothing to do with circulation anything. On one side of the diaphragm is paint, on the other side is hydraulic oil. when you increase pressure you are increasing oil pressure, therefore the paint will increases equally. Note: An educational point with diaphragm pumps, when changing colors or flushing always turn the pressure down to a minimum, otherwise with the prime valve open you could create an environment where on the oil side you have 2500 PSI, while on the paint side you have atmospheric (little to none) and the end result is a ruptured diaphragm.

Mike, If it is the same system the Airlessco folks explained it to me at one of the Expos, it isn't the same system you are used to. The "bypass" for lack of a better term is the same as the "circulation" valve. The more you close it the higher the pressure. Perhaps Gracos are the only products that have completely on or completely off bypass valves. I'm certain Speeflo and some Airlessco have adjustable valves.

just a note on the airlessco diaphragm pump. You used to be able to buy just diaphragm now you have to buy entire head every time. What a ripoff. Most of the time all that went bad was that 25 cent o- ring on the thing anyway. I wish we could get a airlessco rep on here to explain his toys.. Don't never put any MEK in any airlessco. just my $10,000 learning mistake thoughts..

Ken, perhaps Airlessco needs a new rep. The have spring loaded inlet and outlet checks that STOP flow. Any valve that is "metering" paint will have a very short life. Any pressure compensation takes place on the oil side (the less abrasive side).The Speeflo valve is meant to be opened or closed not partially, and although it is not a "quick" 90 degree turn to fully open (like Graco's newer designs)) and it is opened by a 360 degree turn or 2 or 3 or more(?) complete turns (like Graco's older designs, AKA original 3500 and 5000). So infact, technically the valve is not either fully on or off, but I doubt Speeflo or Airlessco would ever recommend using it as a throttle or paint flow restricting valve. This design like Graco's older design in a partially opened position would experience horrific wear, much like an airless tip. Because of this and the way users were operasting the valve, Graco went to a quick 90 degree to fully opened valve to minimize the dwell time the needle/seat was in the initially opened phase. This is the point where the paint is moving at a very high velocity and is most abrasive to metal parts. Most users would open them slowly to attempt to minimize the burst into the bucket, and thus killing the valve quickly. The new Graco valves work like a gun in that it quickly gets the needle out of the way a fast as possible to minimize wear. To address the burst in the bucket, additional features were added to the return line outlet. The valve now could also serve an additional function as an overpressure devise and are spring loaded to open at approximately 4500 PSI, if something were to go wrong. A nice safety feature. Bottom line is that regardless of how any valve opens (instantly or gradually), none of the manufacturers design, want, or suggest users have the circulate or re-circulate paint at high pressure (partially open). In CWPS' post, it appeared that the pressure adjusting valve appeared to be not very responsive until it was adjusted into the final few turns. With traffic paint, especially waterbornes, it will always be operated in the or around the highest pressure position since I believe it is only a 2500 PSI pump max. To me, as long as it is holding pressure while operating it may not be a problem. CWPS, since you are new to Airlessco and airless, you may want to find a qualified service center or Airlessco rep to make sure you fully understand the operation, especially safety! You could inject yourself, generate static electricity and have a fire, or even use the wrong paint (like Chlorinated) and open yourself to a dangerous and potentially explosive environment. At the same time have them look at its operation. And get a manual. Be smart and safe

find a rental store that rents a graco...

I have been wrong before but here is a link that might be interesting. http://airlessco.com/pdf/001-703_Spray&Stripe3000.pdf In case you can't get it to launch, I cut and pasted the following. addressing the control valve aka Pressure Relief Valve. "5. Turn Control Valve (Prime/Pressure Relief Valve) as shown open (priming) to relieve fluid pressure. " taken from Airlessco Service/Operation manuel "1. Learn how to operate the control valve. The control valve sets the prime or pressure position as well as the spraying pressure. When the valve is fully counter-clockwise the unit is in the prime position. As the control valve is turned clockwise, the unit’s output pressure to the gun is gradually increased until the control valve is fully clockwise and the unit is at it’s maximum output pressure of 2500 psi. This will fully atomize any stain or paint without needing to dilute the material." taken from Airlessco Service/Operation manuel In addition, Airlessco had a new "el cheap-o" striper at the Expo that developed and regulated pressure by bleeding part of it back into the pail.. I was looking closely at the unit and decided that was the method they were using before I questioned them. It was in fact the way it worked.

Ken, I am simply trying to get accurate information to CWPS, not target you so relax. I'll try to explain using your post: I'm thinking the 3300 is a diaphragm type pump. That means the pump is circulating paint at all times. The pressure is regulated by restricting the volume of paint being diverted back into the pail. The 3300 does not circulate paint at all times and pressure is [b]not regulated by restricting paint back to the pail.[/b] The control valve post regulates oil not paint and the higher the oil pressure the higher the paint pressure. It is a 1 to 1 ratio, 2000 PSI oil equals 2000 PSI paint. I am guessing the confusion lies in the "el cheapo" Airlessco model that in a cost savings stategy, Airlessco minimizes or eliminates "pricey" pressure controls and simply recirculates back to the bucket any excess flow above and beyond what the tip is not flowing. This is not the case with the 3300 and larger models and is not typical of High pressure diaphragm pumps. BTW, the Fieldlazer operates the same way as the "el cheapo" but is a piston pump that operates only up to approximately 900 PSI max.

Sorry, Cormac, but Ken is right, Airlessco uses the cheapest and easyest system for pressure controll, it's just a ball and spring, the pressure on the ball determines how much paint can bleed into the bypass tube and gives OK pressure controll, no pressure on the ball is for priming. What he needs is a new controller, should cost around 95 bucks. The 3300 is one of the older smaller models with an unrestricted output of about .7 GPM.

I stand corrected, Straightline! My apologies Mr. Pritchett. A thousand pardons! Cwps, it sounds like Straightline has it figured out. I still cannot believe that is how Airlessco manages pressure and flow. Without the engine throttle and centrifugal clutch, I'd be surprised if it would last a week. Every other airless diaphragm pump I have seen (Graco Linelazer LD included) managed pressure on the oil side of the diaphragm, therefore I assumed......

cwps wrote on Oct 6, 2006:Go to #1

Hello all, I’m new to striping ( about 10 small jobs under my belt ) been power washing for 8-9 years. I’ve bought and been using an Airlessco 3300 from a rental company that works ok the only problem is when I turn the pressure knob from prime to pressure nothing happens (no pressure) until the last 2-3 turns. It’s like no pressure then full pressure, not much in between. I’m not sure this IS a problem or that’s the way this machine works. If not is there a solution? I’m thinking maybe a clog somewhere. Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks Shane.

Hi Shane, The Sure Stripe 3300 uses the same pump assembly/bearing housing as the Airlessco 3100 Piston/Diaphragm Paint Sprayer. This design enjoyed over thirty years of successful production and use in the rental and professional painting contractor market. Your 3300 uses a mechanically activated diaphragm assembly to pressurize the fluid; a piston assembly rides on an eccentric bearing and pushes the diaphragm up and down under the control head. There is no hydraulic pressure below the diaphragm membrane, thus no way for hydraulic fluid to push through a leak and onto your walls or stripes as in other diaphragm designs. The Control Valve assembly is a precision made flow restrictor type valve that is designed to constantly bypass, but not shut fully off during normal use on the 3100 and the SS3300. Again this design was in use for thirty years. Yes it is a wear part, but with normal use and regular cleaning these valves last well. The trade off is there are no pistons, cylinders or packings to wear out. That being said, your SS3300 is probably a few years old at least, and saw duty as a rental unit; one of the toughest environments an airless paint sprayer can be subject to. One symptom of a wearing Control Valve matches what you have described. The nice thing is, it still works for the application; you just don't have as much adjustment available. The Control Valve is available from any Airlessco Distributor, Part Number 115-024, and is very easy to change out.

JimJack42 wrote on Oct 6, 2006:Go to #6

just a note on the airlessco diaphragm pump. You used to be able to buy just diaphragm now you have to buy entire head every time. What a ripoff. Most of the time all that went bad was that 25 cent o- ring on the thing anyway. I wish we could get a airlessco rep on here to explain his toys.. Don't never put any MEK in any airlessco. just my $10,000 learning mistake thoughts..

All of the parts on and in the Control Head Assembly and the diaphragm assembly itself are still available seperately. If you would like an e-mailed breakdown of the head, email me at [email removed] and I will be happy to provide you with it! Incidentely, why would you put MEK in any airless? It's an extremely hot and dry solvent, and unless you are rinsing a multi-component epoxy that requires it, I could not think of any reason to expose expensive equipment to such a chemical.

\\\STRIPES/// wrote on Oct 7, 2006:Go to #9

In addition, Airlessco had a new "el cheap-o" striper at the Expo that developed and regulated pressure by bleeding part of it back into the pail.. I was looking closely at the unit and decided that was the method they were using before I questioned them. It was in fact the way it worked.

Yes, our newer compact linestriping machines, the Spray & Stripe 3000 and 3500 use "Constant Bypass" piston pumps. They use exactly the same professional grade piston pump assemblies that we have been using on our LP Series Airless Paint Sprayers since 1992. The Control Valve is the same design as used on the older diaphragm machines, just updated. These new Control Valves have been in use now for two years on these machines and have been doing an excellent job controlling the pressure on these machines. Unlike the other constant bypass machine on the market, the Spray & Stripe 3000 and 3500 can operate at normal airless painting pressures (2500 psi) and use standard reversible striping tips to make a line, not a drag-along template at low pressure. The Spray & Stripe 3000 and 3500 also use a direct drive coupling between the standard 4 stroke Honda or Briggs engine and the gearbox, eliminating the power loss that will develop with a centrifugal clutch, and the resulting need for Indy-Car RPMs. As far as being "El-Cheapo", boy I wish I had your budget! These machines are well built and utilize features found on machines intended for heavy use, something that's not common on other machines in this use range.

Airlessco Tech I thought your new control design was pretty ingenius. Perhaps "reasonably priced" would have been a better choice of words for the unit. Most of the regulars here who know me will testify I am anti- diaphragm pumps, Briggs and Stratton, short throw pumps and centrifugal clutches. Conversely, I AM a proponent of simplicity when it comes to paint pumps hence my dedication to Speeflo 4000 series and above. Is a Honda motor an option on your striper? If so I'd still consider trying one. FYI - MEK is commonly found in alkyd and other oil based paints. Therefore, it would be difficult to avoid exposure of MEK to the internals of most striping machines. MEK is also commonly used by many stripers who use alkyd paints (myself included). It is good for cleaning as long as it isn't left in most machines for very long. I'm not sure how it affects Airlessco equipment but I did own a diaphragm pump machine once. MEK may have been the reason for its demise.

Hi Stripes, Thanks for your response, and just to clarify, the "Spray & Stripe" 3000 and 3500 are simpler, direct drive machines that serve well in the lower use cycle environment of municiple maintenance crews, schools and turf marking, where there is a need for light striping, as well as the occasional wall or fence for graffiti abatement, etc. The Spray & Stripe 3000 uses a 3.5 HP Briggs and Stratton Engine and has a fixed front wheel, while the Spray & Stripe 3500 features a 3.0 HP Honda GC Engine and a swivel front wheel assembly, standard. Airlessco does manufacture three other line striping machines, the "Sure Stripe" Series 4000, 4500 and 6000. These three machines use fully electronic pressure controls and electro-magnetic clutches, Honda GX engines, heavy duty frames and a number of other features that allow them to operate in the heavy use Professional Striping environment. The Sure Stripe 4000 uses a Honda GX 4.0, and the tried and true LP Series Piston Pump. The 4500 and 6000 use the GX 5.5 and our longer stroke, higher GPM (1.5 GPM) SL Piston Pump, and can support two gun set-ups. The 6000 has a dual wheel swivel for stability and a larger frame than the 4500, allowing it to be used with our Ride & Stripe option. Thanks for the info on MEK; I was specifically refering to MEK being used just for cleaning, and then being left in the machines. Your key words are "It is good for cleaning as long as it isn't left in most machines". The membrane on all diaphragm machines (including Airlessco) are typically plastic/nylon, and MEK just dries plastic out to a brittle point.

First, I just want to say thanks to all and this a great BBS. Second, spoke with two local repair shops and I was told to have the pump rebuilt completely would be around $500.00. Considering the engine runs great ( one pull start ) and it sprays ok for now I’m thinking if its not broke, don’t fix it. Thanks again, Shane.

CW, no need for a re-build, it's a simple fix, just need a monkey wrench.

Sorry it has taken so long to reply to this subject. I've been busy with my graco machine spraying epoxy cleaning with MEK. Thanks for finally showing up on PLP airlessco rep. You ask a question "why would I rinse out any expensive paint equipment with MEK? Well at the time I was using your top of the line machine a 6000 and was told by your VP Tom Wood that the packing's (this after having packed several times in a month) that I could spray epoxy with it. WRONG.. After spraying about one gallon machine locked up and epoxy blew everywhere. After already having this new machine repaired at least 17 times (110 mile round trip) in two months time. The machine NEVER worked the way it should. Your authorized dealer did not know how to fix machine. To there credit they did replace everything on it but the motor and machine still did not work. Or at least they said they replaced everything. Found out later that they did not replace one part and that part was the trouble. To finish the job I went and bought a Graco. That was six years ago and over at least 400 gallons of epoxy and at least 100 gallons of MEK run Thur machine and lord know how many gallons of regular striping run Thur it (over thousand) and pump has just been rebuilt ONE time. Let's see Ailressco machine five rebuilds and driving 1500 miles in two months and still not fixed. Graco machine 6 years 100 miles driving and NO other problems packed just one time I lost and spent thousands on a Airlessco in two months time and in six years have not spent one cent on the Graco besides regular maintenance. You company never did offer to send me another machine for this lemon. Just kept sending parts for it. Adding bad parts for bad parts does not work. I have five graco machines now and plan on buying more. They could have been five airlessco's. Heck I have tried your tech dept before and you just had two people working and one was on break. sowhere on here PLP a survey was done on who owned what machines. I think Graco was like ten two one over everyone else. Just a very few had airlessco's. In closing your company DID NOT honor there warranty. Your toys cost me thousands and looking back I should have taken you to court. And the question you ask at first WHY would I rinse my machine with MEK?? Because after making thousands of dollars of profit with my GRACO I can!!!!!!!!!!

something else since Oct. 13Th here on PLP there has been for sale Airlessco stripers. 194 people have viewed it and not one reply.

Who carries the composite wheel stops in the DFW area ie. Lewisville,Keller,Plano, etc... If none...where is best price for (should I say) concrete wheel stops.....ugh back breakers.... Thanks